Ponderings at 8am (in Dallas/Fort Worth)
All y’all’d know that I hate myspace more than almost everything, so I don’t have an account there, and therefore can’t comment there.
“We don’t have the fight to survive that enabled our ancestors. They were invigorated by the trials of lving”
Actually, I do believe that they were eviscerated by the trials of living, not invigorated.
“We have poor perception of how hard things can get.”
We always have that perception. In fact, studies have shown that we are always 70% happy no matter what the circumstances. Sure there are outliers, but we are always only on the threshold of being happy. That is why con men can continue to operate, we always think that we just need one more thing to elevate us from our 70%.
We have not learned to struggle, and enjoy the rewards of our struggle.
Some of us have learned to struggle and to gain no rewards. Some of us are ready to give up on struggling all together because we fail to gain the rewards that we see everyone else around us obtain.
The adventure lacking has created a void, where people (men particularly) do not see their worth in material terms
My problem is not now I see my worth, but how everyone else has failed to see my worth. I will never have the opportunity to be an ancestor because not a single woman has ever even gone on a pity date with me. They look at me and judge that my worth is zero. In fact, one can even chart how those of the opposite sex begin to avoid me after our friendship develops to a certain point. My theory is that I am so utterly repulsive to them that they don’t even want me to have the opportunity to misconstrue a relationship they see as purely platonic. I could name names, but I won’t, suffice to say that the friendship only seems to resume once the woman is taken….
Yet people wonder why I am so angry and depressed, why I have no self esteem. It is pretty fucking obvious. No interest from the opposite sex. Ever.
Not one date. Not one drunken and regretted kiss. Not even one interested second look.
This is not something I can accept forever.
385 days…. tick. tock. tick. tock.
Perhaps your desire to not conform is contributary to your situation.
Social conformity exists for a reason. It is about ease of communication and shared societal values.
If someone rejects social conformity, in effect, they reject societal norms, and effectively isolate themself.
All this to say, that if this is your primary issue, there are things you can do to dramatically improve your ‘attractiveness’, but you are likely to find them unpalatable.
Firstly, you’ve met me at my most conforming, and all of my failed overtures were during that time.
I think the bigger issue is being only 5’3″ which makes me shorter than the average for women in oz by almost 2 inches. That is not something that can be changed.
But if you think there are things I can do, suggest them.
Dressing and presenting yourself in a mainstream fashion dramatically improves your chances.
Developing your wit (which you have in a sharper degree than most) helps.
Being a pleasant, even uplifting person to be around is very helpful as well.
Mainstream eh, like say…. this picture. There is a reason why I had to buy 3 new black tshirts recently, my wardrobe was nothing but mainstream.
I’m sure my lack of wit development is not why I was rejected in favour of, lets say, someone with a name not unlike yours.
As for being pleasant and uplifting…. you might as well tell me to grow a foot in height, or change my skin colour. Plus, you met me when I was playing that role, it didn’t work then.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is not what I would consider mainstream. There are elements in that presentation that mark you out as not mainstream.
This is more what I had in mind:
http://www.logitechvideocontest.com/images/blog_main2.jpg
Presentation is a huge factor, and it’s power is underestimated.
As for specific examples, don’t let your worldview in this area be shaped by a single event. (That’s like applying for one job every two weeks…it will get you no where.)
You say: “As for being pleasant and uplifting…. you might as well tell me to grow a foot in height, or change my skin colour.”
Well, changing one’s social patterns is a terribly difficult thing, but I can say from experience it can be done. I quite an unpopular kid in primary school, for certain reasons, and my developed social patterns did not help. I learnt that I could significantly change the situation through the social factors I had control over.
ahh crap the link didn’t work you need to add n2.jpg on the end of the link. How do you insert links?
Oh and ps. Do you like paintball?
Your pic
I have 4 tshirts that look almost identical (if that small pic is actually showing what I think it is), I was wearing one today, and they were what I was wearing until I got my new black shirts. Sorry there are no pictures, but I no longer have a personal photographer.
“Presentation is a huge factor, and it’s power is underestimated.”
No, I think it is you who underestimate it. I am short and fat. With most women I am shorter and fatter than them, and most women want someone taller and fitter. Changing my tshirt design will not change these simple physical characteristics.
“Do you like paintball?”
I have never used projectiles, only lasertag. But, even simple competitive games put undue pressure on my temper. I can’t pretend to fight, I either don’t try, or I fight to the death. As an example you might remember a water battle in melbourne that I basically sat out of, and I still almost snapped.
You don’t want to see me in that mode, for someone will need medical attention.
“I learnt that I could significantly change the situation through the social factors I had control over.”
I’m starting to get sick of saying it: Like what? and more over, what was wrong with my “social factors” say 2 or 3 years ago?
most women want someone taller and fitter. Changing my tshirt design will not change these simple physical characteristics
You cannot change your height, but you can change your fitness. That’s definitely a good start right there.
It’s not about what t-shirt you wear…that is a very shallow way to perceive it. It is about a wholistic image or look that you portray. The image you portray is a tool of communication. it sends signals about oneself.
To the mainstream (ie. most people) if someone dresses goth or grunge, it sends signals like this: “I am strange, off the beaten track, I could in fact be dangerous.”
In general, no one in the mainstream will be interested in investing in a friendship with this kind of person, as these are undesirable features. It doesn’t matter if they really are a nice person, the messages they have sent in their presentation have virtually ruined their chances of people taking a warming to them.
You yourself have stated that you think the issue is more people undervaluing you. I would suggest that if you present yourself according to the metal subculture, you alienate yourself quite effectively from the vast majority of people. Metal dress sends bad signals…unstable, unfriendly, unwelcoming. If you think you’ve been undervalued by other people who have come to those conclusions, you must tailor your presentation to send the signals that you believe are accurate.
Like what? and more over, what was wrong with my “social factors” say 2 or 3 years ago?
As much as I love studentlife, you must understand it is not a mainstream culture, particularly the old school when you were there. Most people you knew in studentlife were not mainstream. The fact that you think they were proves my point that you have not grasped this concept.
To the wider uni student population, it was characterised as being ‘out of touch’. Most of that is simple presentation factors…the way one dresses, the way one speaks, rather simple stuff. These are the things that I am talking about.
To some people, I am advocating ‘trendiness’. But to me I am not…and this is an important mindset if one is to understand what I am saying. I see, as many do, that those who are not ‘trendy’ are those lacking in social skills. This is a mainstream opinion. I see nothing noble or desirable in lacking social skills.
As you enjoy specifics, more shall be forthcoming. These are important social skills in harvesting friendships:
> small talk.
The ability to converse in a friendly, happy way is a valued social skill. People want to feel comfortable. Cheerful small talk puts people at ease. It is a skill that needs to be cultivated.
> Other people orientation
When you talk with someone, the successful friend cultivator asks the new person about them. You show genuine interest in finding out who they are, even if their interests do not align with yours. In fact, this is how you find out if your interests align.
Another important trick is remembering things they have said and following up on it at a later date. this makes people feel that you have heard them, listened to them, and thought about them. For example, last conversation they told you they have an exam. The next time you see them, ask how the exam went.
These are some good basics, and give you an idea of where I am coming from.
“You cannot change your height, but you can change your fitness. That’s definitely a good start right there.”
I’ve been doing 2 hours a day on an exercise bike since november I average 2.5 meals a day. I rarely snack. I am quite fit, but that has failed to make an impact on my size.
“I am strange, off the beaten track, I could in fact be dangerous.”
Correct.
“unstable, unfriendly, unwelcoming”
Also correct.
“you must tailor your presentation to send the signals that you believe are accurate.”
It would seem that I have done that recently.
“Cheerful small talk puts people at ease. It is a skill that needs to be cultivated.”
That would be a useful skill in say, university tutoring, some may even say that it is the only skill…. maybe this is a skill I have some proficiency in.
“You show genuine interest in finding out who they are, even if their interests do not align with yours”
Once again, I think I have this skill as much as my memory permits.
“In general, no one in the mainstream will be interested in investing in a friendship with this kind of person” + “Most people you knew in studentlife were not mainstream.”
These 2 premises would seem to point to a conclusion that something should have developed while I was part of SL. But it didn’t. I was in the right place, at the right time, doing the right things, and still nothing happened…. I have never had friends, no matter how much I have tried, as soon as I am out of sight I am seemingly forgotten. You are only posting here because I stayed around the forums. Many who were supposedly my friends haven’t even tried to talk.
“You yourself have stated that you think the issue is more people undervaluing you”
Yes, but maybe they are valuing me correctly according to their scale. Maybe I am utterly repulsive to women. Maybe the idea of a romantic relationship with me makes them sick to their stomach. Maybe the idea of any kind of physical contact with me is so absolutely repugnant that they will kick me across the room at the first sign of it.
“When you talk with someone”
Like who? Where do I find this invisible pink unicorn who actually wants to talk to me?
I’ve been doing 2 hours a day on an exercise bike since november I average 2.5 meals a day. I rarely snack. I am quite fit, but that has failed to make an impact on my size.
Do you still guzzle coffee? :P
These 2 premises would seem to point to a conclusion that something should have developed while I was part of SL. But it didn’t.
That would only be true if the mainstream and non-mainstream were groups that are compatible within each other. non mainstream is less inter-compatible. Almost by definition, it is a group of people with lower social skills. Of course, this is a generalisation, but as a generalisation, I think it stands.
I have never had friends, no matter how much I have tried, as soon as I am out of sight I am seemingly forgotten.
Such is curious. but I believe this must be the case for a number of reasons. Some you will have control over, others not.
Many Christian organisations, and particularly Studentlife, do not exist for the benefit of their members, but rather for non-members. Pastoral care exists within Studentlife but it is a lower priority.
Many relationships formed were done in the context of a mission. Once you fall out of the mission, the basis of such relationships is then defunct. you would only have maintained relationships with those whose relationship extended beyond the studentlife context.
You are only posting here because I stayed around the forums.
hehehe. why am i still here? fascinating Q, no?
Maybe I am utterly repulsive to women. Maybe the idea of a romantic relationship with me makes them sick to their stomach. Maybe the idea of any kind of physical contact with me is so absolutely repugnant that they will kick me across the room at the first sign of it.
Whilst you are speaking in extremes, you may well have a point. Perhaps that is worth investigating and rectifying. (How? I hear you ask. Simple. Ask yourself the logical questions, and then answer them. I can do this if you wish).
Like who? Where do I find this invisible pink unicorn who actually wants to talk to me?
i don’t know. I’ve already made suggestions. You need to find what works for you. And if nothing comes to mind, you must CHANGE something…or do something uncomfortable.
“Do you still guzzle coffee? :P”
I haven’t had a coffee in weeks, but only because I’ve been at home. But my coffee is always without sugar and is therefore calorie neutral.
“Almost by definition, it is a group of people with lower social skills.”
You are obviously reading a different dictionary to me, because I see nothing about social skills in 8 dictionaries I have here. I would accept that the introvert:extrovert ratio is different between the 2 groups, but that is nothing to with learned skills it is purely neurobiology.
“Once you fall out of the mission, the basis of such relationships is then defunct.”
But all relationships have some similar contextual basis, whether school or workplace or sports team. If what you are saying is true, then abstract friendship doesn’t exist, and any efforts are wasted.
“Whilst you are speaking in extremes, you may well have a point.”
Of course I have a point, I have nearly 24 years of data to base my conclusions on.
“Perhaps that is worth investigating and rectifying.”
How does one change such revulsion then….
“You need to find what works for you.”
Nothing works for me.
“do something uncomfortable.”
Death sounds uncomfortable….
Dan your comments are defeatist. Of course there are ways around these things, but you’re not even trying.
“Dan your comments are defeatist. Of course there are ways around these things, but you’re not even trying.”
Yes, my comments are defeatist. I do accept failure as that is the only card I have ever been dealt. Over my lifetime I have tried a myriad of things, including significant changes at each major situation change (public school -> selective high -> uni -> student life -> now). Other than being a sleazy guy at a sleazy nightclub (which isn’t a good way to get a relationship, just a good way to get a one night stand) I have tried everything I can think of, and things I have had suggested to me.
Try to get this through your skull. I have always failed. Always. Everytime. At everything.
Failure is all I have ever known.
If I didn’t accept it and give up at times I would be already dead, or maimed, or jailed, or completely bat-fuck crazy.
You’re in Dallas? The Deuce? :O
Well, we all know how women are (except Steve, that damned lucky bastard). It’s a matter of try, try again. I know I’ve had more girlfriends than you, but I’ve also been rejected by more girls than you. It doesn’t get easy, but, seriously, breaking up with a girl is like a bajillion times worse.
And don’t be so paranoid about your shape. It matters less than you imagine. And you’re really not that bad, at least last time I saw you.
Hey Dan!
Long time no chat.. I saw you briefly at mac centre and wanted to catch up.. but u seemed in a rush..or didn’t feel like talking..
but I just wanted to let you know how much Steve really cares about you.. he talks about you alot, thinks and cares about how you are going. More than you know. (sometimes he can’t even sleep that well cos he really wants you to be ok) So please see his heart in his persistance in approaching your worldview in a fair and judgmental manner.
he is your friend.
More than that..he cares than most friends in this world.
Also.. you say you fail, but you are in the top 2% brackett in the fact that you are have a tertiary degree.. many people kill for that.. and apparently anyone that owns a computer is in the top 1% as well….
The emotions you have, may be chemically induced, and colour your perceptions.. but please also try looking at some of the things your darn lucky to have..
and even more.. the things you can acheive when you get your mind in a new perspective..
cos u can dan…it is in your grasp. Many of the people that have succeeded the most have known pain greater than u or I. And not only that alot of people experience alot of pain that you are not aware of. You are not alone in this.. so please receive the gifts that you’ve been given. a life. a chance. people that care. you have resources that can be accessed. you live in a safe environment with little war or poverty.
you are a lucky guy in many ways!!!
“You’re in Dallas? The Deuce? :O”
No, it just happened to be in the right timezone to be 8am when I wrote the post….
“seriously, breaking up with a girl is like a bajillion times worse.”
To quote Alfred, Lord Tennyson: “It’s better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all.”
“you’re really not that bad, at least last time I saw you.”
I’m 5’3″ and 210 lbs (160cm and 95kg), that’d be a BMI of 37. I am that bad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“I saw you briefly at mac centre and wanted to catch up.. but u seemed in a rush..or didn’t feel like talking..”
If I remember correctly, I was in a hurry. I had to get something done and be back in time to teach.
“Also.. you say you fail, but you are in the top 2% brackett in the fact that you are have a tertiary degree.. many people kill for that..”
A degree is not success. Especially if it cost me $20000, 4 years and has achieved nothing in return. To me success is more about fulfilling emotional relationships, not having a certain piece of paper.
“The emotions you have, may be chemically induced”
All emotions are chemically induced.
“And not only that alot of people experience alot of pain that you are not aware of.”
Of course I’m not aware, most people only share that kind of stuff with their close friends, and no one considers me as such.
“a life”
I’m still breathing, but I don’t have what many would consider a life.
“a chance.”
The chance card reads – Go to Jail. Move directly to jail, do not pass go, and do not collect $200.
“people that care.”
That has yet to be seen.
“you have resources that can be accessed”
I mostly have resources that can be repossessed when I fail to pay off my significant debts.
“you live in a safe environment with little war or poverty.”
It wasn’t very long ago that I was huddled in a dark room with no food or power waiting for the floodwaters to rise and engulf me.
I’m 5’3″ and 210 lbs (160cm and 95kg), that’d be a BMI of 37. I am that bad.
Pish posh, that’s not so bad. And the BMI is crap. That this is not a problem should be readily obvious from looking around – there are guys far fatter that you could be with girls. What is the deal, huh?
To quote Alfred, Lord Tennyson: “It’s better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all.”
He speaks truly, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck. To quote myself, ‘it sucks more to break up than to be flat out rejected’.
“What is the deal, huh?”
That has been my question all along, but the evidence still says that women don’t find me attractive at all (and neither do men).
So…. there has to be a reason…. doesn’t there?
Yep, but you’ll have to catch up with me in person to find that out …
That has been my question all along, but the evidence still says that women don’t find me attractive at all (and neither do men).
If you acknowledge this, why don’t you listen to me when I explain what I see can be done?
“If you acknowledge this, why don’t you listen to me when I explain what I see can be done?”
Because you haven’t suggested anything I haven’t tried before, in fact the last thing you said was “you may well have a point.”
I know something you haven’t tried before, but let me reiterate that you’ll have to catch up with me in person to find out.
“you’ll have to catch up with me in person to find out.”
This sounds intriguing…. but it also sounds like some kind of communist plot to abduct me….
Well, you’ve said that being abducted sounds like fun, so I guess you have no problems with the proposal?
Actually I do have an objection, I like my tops to be female….
Ahh, well I can assure you that there is no BDSMing going on here.
Let me put it this way – I’m capable of playing games too. I hold the keys to the kingdom – you want them. If you want them badly enough, you know where to get them. If not, then you have no reason for your adolescent angst – to misquote T.S. Eliot, it’s all whimper and no bang.
Okay then, but in light of my other stalkers lets take the organisation of such a clandestine meeting to a more secure location than this public commenting system.
Excellent idea.
Well, send me an email (there should be a link on my profile) and we’ll go from there.
Because you haven’t suggested anything I haven’t tried before
You havent tried presenting yourself in a mainstream fashion, as per my suggestion. In fact your photo from when you think you tried proves that you never have.
“In fact your photo from when you think you tried proves that you never have.”
Actually, that was just a random picture from those I’d uploaded for the post about my hair.
The fact is that I’m not the kind of narcissist that has thousands of photos of myself lying around. If I had one of myself at my most mainstream, I’d post it, but I don’t. The best I have since found from recent times this pic. I’d like to hear how that outfit is not mainstream (I was wearing jeans with it I believe)
ok, I’ve got adequate emotional reserves to continue. I needed a rest but I am back.
It’s handsome in a more traditional manner, but I don’t think it’s going to be an effective dress style.
If it’s people power you want, you need to dress more trendy. I’d recommend an ‘urban’ style – it’s appealing to a very wide target market.
Urban style: think Jay Jay’s for cheap (be careful there tho) or David Jones in the casual section.
A look needs to be wholistic, so includes haircut, methods of speech and mannerisms. But often these will come naturally when you dress the part.
Where I live Jay Jays is considered high end, not cheap.
David Jones is considered a complete utter waste of money.
No why don’t you critique what I was wearing in that video I posted yesterday….